THE BIG INTERVIEW in the ESPspotlight: CARYN FRANKLIN MBE & CHARLOTTE GUSH - FASHION UNDRESSED, 23 JULY (Part Two)

After the panel had closed, I got my opportunity to ask three burning questions to the two ladies in the media, who were best placed to tell me what I wanted to know...

Parsons School of Design encourages its students to create convertible garments that can change the world. How do you think that we could create a feat like that here; do you think All Walks could do something like that, and what do you think it would take for the big fashion houses to follow suit? 

Caryn Franklin MBE

Caryn Franklin MBE: "I think the key things for all creatives to know, is that they influence thinking. Art is where we can really challenge boundaries, push boundaries. And so if we're talking about designs for the body - I mean Parsons might be talking about a whole range of design from product design to structural building design, all kinds of things, I'm not sure but, if we're applying it to the body, what we've really got to think about is empowering the wearer. Now many designers think that they're doing that, but maybe there's a sort of unspoken element - the white elephant in the room if you like - where they're not looking at the uniqueness of people's bodies, and the diversity of people's bodies; and so empowering someone who has the shape of a catwalk model, who has been on a very strict diet, and has a very freakish body shape is one way that they use their skills, but actually, that's not their market. Their wider market is ordinary human beings who deserve recognition of their difference.

I think that's one of the hardest things for designers, to think about how they apply their skills. Many designers don't have a skillset to work across a diverse range of bodies, because they've never been taught how to do that. So a lot of designers come out of college having never really worked on a voluptuous body; they don't know how to design for breasts and hips, they don't necessarily know how to design for an older body, they don't know where the change is that that body goes through in age. And so rather than expose themselves as not able to design for those types of bodies, let alone other types of bodies - as you know, a wheelchair presents its own challenges to do with fastenings, and places where the garment needs to lie flat against the body - and these are things that they again, don't know, unless they've been able to educate themselves. 

So one of the things that I've been doing as Director of All Walks is to say that designers can acquire a broader range of skills - we're not suggesting that all these skills be forced upon every single designer; but that by bringing designers closer to an understanding of who their customer will be, and appreciating their own physical difference - because most designers are really able to grasp this very quickly - they don't look catwalk models, so why are they designing for catwalk models? Female designers get that quite quickly, and begin to look at how they can contribute their skills to making humankind feel good.

One of the projects that we found really early success for was The ICON Project that we did at Edinburgh, on a regular basis with Mal Burkinshaw, who was the Director of the Diversity network that we helped set up. He said to his students 'I want you to choose someone to work with, who simply does not embody your average catwalk shape, and I want you to get to know about them as a human being, and what it is that they need from fashion, and what fashion could do for them. And the students all cite that; they made amazing garments, and they had a brilliant catwalk show with all of the people that they'd picked. Some were working with their Grandmothers, some just ran after people that they saw in the street. And they said that it was one of the most educative experiences that they'd had. So we feel that all design colleges could really pick up that and open up an awareness for design students.

But I think that other creatives as well need to get on board. One of the other projects we had done was with photographers to say that being conscious about the way you portray clothes - always just thinking that the only right way, is just a tall, thin, white, young woman, is again, operating in a very closed mindset. We brought scientific studies to the table, to say that studies show that consumers are looking to engage in relatability with the person that they see in the image, and if they can see shared characteristics between themselves and that model, they're more likely to move towards intention to purchase. So all of those things are what industry needs to grasp. I do believe that design can contribute towards wellbeing, mental health, our perception of ourselves, our experience of ourselves; and I don't believe that it's superficial. I do believe that creatives are hugely influential."

Charlotte Gush and Yours Truly

Charlotte Gush: "I think All Walks is really specifically focused on diversity, and that's amazing that someone is finally making clothing specifically to deal with the issues faced by homeless people. All Walks actually does work in Universities up and down the Country, I think there are about 37 Universities that take part in 'Diversity Now'; which is a national student competition that kind of challenges students to show us their vision of what a diverse fashion future would look like. A lot of the tutors who have really gotten in to it have kind of paired the students up with muses from their community; and part of the project is that they speak to this woman about what she needs, and so I know that Edinburgh college have really taken to this, and they had a group of women come in. There was a pregnant woman, there was a woman in a wheelchair, there was a woman who was older, and had difficulty walking; and so the students worked individually with them, to create fashion that worked for them. 

So I think our student programme is already making those things, and Mal Burkinshaw, who is the Director of the Diversity programme that All Walks and Edinburgh College of Arts set up, is really leading the way on driving those kind of student projects. In terms of big designers, they kind of already do; we have to remember that all we see is the catwalk, so there are problems with just seeing their catwalk collections; actually a lot of big designers, particularly the really big ones, make their money making bespoke clothes for actresses on the red carpet, but also rich women who may be united in their wealth, but are diverse in their bodies and their needs. So actually, the original aim of a Couturier, is really to work with a woman and her body, and make something that works for her. But those principles could definitely be more represented in the catwalk fashion that we see."

Is there a future in disabled fashion as well as plus-sized?

Caryn Franklin MBE: "I think there's a future in anything where there's a niche market. If there's enough people to support the economics of a market, then there's a future. I don't know what the percentage of people who have bodily difference is, what their needs might be, and whether they are a wide variety of needs, or whether they can be narrowed down to something that can be mass-produced; because that's obviously where the financial interest would be. I don't know whether designers have yet looked at that market as a viable market? I certainly know from speaking to people for whom clothes are an important part of their identity that they've used clothes to say much more about themselves than their physical presence can. But we all do that - when I get out of bed, there's a whole process of choices that I make in order to leave the house and present myself as I want people to see me. Turning up to an important job, just sort of rolling out in pyjamas - people wouldn't read us in the right way, from our hair, to the way we presented our skin, to the way we presented our uniform, or our clothing.

I met an amazing woman, Louise Wedderburn, she had a Channel 4 programme made about her, and I think I met her four or five years back, because she has a rare condition that solidifies all her bones and her joints to the point where she simply has no flexibility. And she said that she made a conscious choice to dress in such a highly visible, noticeable way, by really being into fashion, and really having her own take on it - she was very interested in the trends - that when people looked at her, as they did all the time; she could say to herself that they were probably looking at her clothes, they were interested in her style, and that she could feel that they were taking information about who she was from her clothes, as opposed to stereotyping her because of her disability. That was a huge teaching, to see the power of clothes.

I often feel that the designers are fighting to say 'look, we do want to do good things, we do care...' but then they keep using this template and this format. They don't quite know how to say 'we do care'. Were they to start emboldening people with physical difference in such a way that we could begin to see ourselves differently through the use of clothes, and stop stereotyping each other, that would be a brilliant service they could provide. They could do one-offs on the catwalk; and they could say that they could be made to order, but then it would be very hard to do something in a bespoke way, and then just get all the stores to order it and roll it out, it's very, very hard. But they could make a stand if they wanted to."

Charlotte Gush: "Yeah, absolutely - there are disabled people who need clothes! Correct me if I'm wrong - and I think I'm not - but disabled people want to look great the same as anyone else; so I think it's an interesting thing in that a lot of fashion, and some of the problems of fashion, is that it's all done in economies of scale, and that's why we have women in Bangladesh working themselves into the ground sometimes, to make those clothes cheap, cheap, cheap, and mass produce stuff. But what we absolutely need is for businesses to see that there is a customer there, and business needs to see that making clothes that work for a diverse range of people makes business sense, as well as ethical sense.

I saw some amazing designs of someone who had made really chic coats that stopped at the lower back, and came around into a train at the front, so that it wouldn't get in the way of a wheelchair, for someone who was sitting down, so I think there are definitely designers who are taking it into account; we should see more of it on the high street and in high fashion, and I think the visibility of women like Jillian Mercado, the woman who modelled for Diesel; the more we see people like that in high fashion advertising, the more people  realise ok, obviously cool people like her, who just happen to be in a wheelchair, also want fashion that works for them. So I hope we do, and I think if fashion businesses are sensible, they'll realise that there is an opportunity there."

Do you think certain areas of Diversity are more accepted than others?

Caryn Franklin MBE: "Yeah, I think as we get to the stage where we're breaking down more and more boundaries, people become more open, and it takes time. So if we give ourselves an example of how society, on the whole, is quite unprogressive in many ways...Fifty years ago, if you weren't married and you had a child, that was extremely challenging for society, and the woman who was expecting a child was shamed. We've got over that boundary. There are some elements of racism that we now call out, and the person who is promoting or embodying that racism is shamed, not the person who is their target. We've got over that.

There's still a long way to go, with many things, with racism, with sexism, with ageism; we're at an exciting place for understanding gender right now, that there isn't a binary system for gender, and gender variance is something we all need to get our heads around. I think people are doing that very quickly and I'm really excited by that. Interestingly, that's an area where fashion has helped. Fashion has promoted gender variant models - see whatever fashion does, it gives it a cool factor. So fashion's found gender variance very interesting - partly because it has a high proportion, I expect of people who are sexually, and gender diverse, looking at its own community. What we don't have in fashion, is a high proportion of women in positions of power, a high proportion of black men and women in positions of power, and a high proportion of people with disabilities in positions of power. It's not really until you get more diversity in decision-making that things will begin to change - that's what I truly believe.

Professor Richard Crisp

There is a psychologist called Professor Richard Crisp who has dedicated twenty years to looking at Diversity, and has designed studies to support the fact that where there is more diversity in decision-making, there is often more creativity, because the brain is being challenged to work in a different way. When we're reducing things to stereotypes and templates, where we're not working in a high proficient way, we're just working in a systematic way, that's when we're our least creative. So I would have thought that challenging ourselves to think in a more diverse way is what every creative would like, and is the future."

Charlotte Gush: "Yeah, I do; I've been working with All Walks Beyond The Catwalk for six years, and one of the things that has niggled at me in that time, is that Diversity is a conversation now, and that's a wonderful thing; we can see a black model in a high fashion thing, we can see an older woman, we can see a disabled woman, but it seems to me that you can't be two of those things (AMEN! - ES), so I think that kind of proves to me that we have only made slight progress. You don't see many older, black models; you do see older models, but they're predominantly white, and they're predominantly thin. 

I think that's a real litmus test in how far we've come in accepting diversity, and I hope we can start to change that; that's exactly why I wanted to emphasise the feminist voices that we hear, because intersectionality is something that feminism has begun to grapple with in a way that this kind of like, hot celebrity diversity initiative has not. Feminism is a critique of the male gaze, and I think a lot of diversity in fashion has hinged on 'Well she's still fuckable' and I think that's really problematic, that we're accepting diversity still through the lens of what men find fuckable - that's not radical, and we need to move into a much more radical position where we see beauty through other lenses, and make our own lenses."

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That's it for Part Deux folks, I hope you enjoyed the insightful answers from these fascinating women! For the final part in this monster three-part instalment, find yourself back here Monday, 3 October, where we go visual with the remainder of the day. See the Ryan LO retrospective, read about the shenanigans in Lea Anderson's choreographed dance troupe; see the People's Catwalk where someone you might recognise took a turn, and finally, stay tuned for what the gorgeous MAC Twins had to say about Diversity. Over and out!

Until the next...

ES

Photos courtesy of EricaSharlette for EricaSharlette Promotions Ltd., All Walks Beyond The Catwalk, Edinburgh College of Art, and Aston University.

CARYN FRANKLIN MBE in the #ESPspotlight LONDON FASHION WEEK SPECIAL - PART ONE!

As childhood dreams go, it's very rare that we ever get to meet the icons that shape our earliest thoughts and ideas, much less greet them in the capacity that left a mark on you in the first place. When I interviewed The Clothes Show Live Show Producer, Marayam Hamizadeh last December; I touched on how much of an inspiration a particular British Fashion ICON had been for me, for as long as I could remember. When I was invited to cover two events at London Fashion Week a few weeks ago, I first asked a really rather talented Japanese Executive Creative Director of a few worldwide Fashion Shows for his advice on what to expect from a major fashion event (you could say he's had a bit of practice); but there was really only one person that could truly give me the best inside scoop.

Ms. Caryn Franklin MBE was kind enough to provide the best birthday pressie a girl could ask for this Monday gone, by sitting down for a 1:1 with a lifelong fan...

Welcome Ms Franklin! I cannot stress enough how honoured I am to have you grace my blog, especially during one of your biggest weeks of the year, so a massive Thank You for your time.

1. As a little girl, come early Sunday evening, there was only ever one place that you would find me: sat on the floor, as close as I could get to my Gran's TV, watching The Clothes Show and waiting for you to tell me about new fashions I had never heard of, was too young to understand, but desperately wanted to try someday. In short, you were my first fashion icon – but who was yours and how did they inspire you?

Fashion Empress and Teacher of all things wonderful,
Caryn Franklin, MBE

That's a really good question! My very first when I was a little girl would have been my Mother, of course she will. She was a very beautiful woman, hopefully all little girls look up to their Mums; she used to go to the hairdressers on special Fridays when she was going out - this is in the 70s - and come back with flowers in her hair; I just thought it was the most magical thing ever. She was like my own personal Fairy Queen.

Maryam Hamizadeh, Show Producer for The Clothes Show Live also graced the blog a few months ago and talked about the importance of education and on the job training in successfully delivering within your role.

2. You earned your BA(Hons) in Graphic Design, but have done so much more than I imagine the course to have covered – as a lecturer yourself, so heavily involved in education, where would you say the most valuable part of your training has come from?

You cannot pinpoint the most valuable part of training. Anybody in practice is learning all the time - I'm still learning. I've been learning for 30 years and I will continue learning. Anybody that I come into touch with has stuff to teach me; not just about the job, but about being a human being and that's part of the fun really, of being involved in the creative world. You're never engaging with a set formula - well you shouldn't be. You are always open to new, exciting ways of doing things, of seeing things, of feeling things, of experiencing things and of communicating things.

3. I can’t think of too many people – women especially, who had the foresight to become their own brand before online marketing really existed. What were you seeing within the Entertainment Industry at the time that made you decide to create your ‘How To Look Good’ website, now celebrating its first decade?

Ms Franklin's 'Ageless Style' ebook is available
from the 'How To Look Good' website

'How To Look Good' was really just a response to ordinary women coming up to me in the street and asking questions about their bodies. They might say: "where can I get shoes in a wider fit?" or "Where can I get a bra that will give me a JJ cup size, but I've got a very narrow back?" "Where can I get longer lengths for trousers?" For awhile, I would try to hold it all in my head and then it got too much. 'How To Look Good' was really just a place to put it all; so when people ask me questions now I can say: "Listen, I've done an e-book on that - you can go and download it for free". So that I feel I can give people the answers that they want and they can look into it in their own time.

4. Your dedication to education and raising awareness in the Fashion Industry earned you a Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) in the 2013 Honours List. Firstly Congratulations (well deserved)! Second, what inspired you to take the brave step of co-forming All Walks Beyond The Catwalk?

Ms. Franklin's official title on Her Majesty's 2013 Honours List

Thank you. I've always been a very vocal communicator. I recognised the power that Fashion has to be an amazing carrier of message to women about their bodies. When we first began Fashion Targets Breast Cancer nearly seventeen years ago, working directly with Ralph Lauren and Breakthrough Breast Cancer, also I had an incredible platform with the BBC - I was able to promote the work that we were doing with 'Fashion Targets' and I saw this enormous take up from women who felt that the Fashion Industry was bringing them important information; but it wasn't about hemlines, it wasn't about trends, it was about health. We normalised talking about breast health and breast care; we normalised talking about early presentation saves lives and through all the work that we did, we helped build and maintain Britain's first dedicated Breast Cancer Research Centre.

So that was an incredible learning curve for me, to see just how powerful fashion is when it is carrying messages to women about their bodies. With 'All Walks'; I really wanted to harness that power. I've been very vocal for a long time about what I see as unachievable body ideals that are constantly promoted - especially to young women. In the last 5 years, we've had a huge digital revolution which has meant that imagery has changed. The way it's recorded has changed; it requires post-production work now that means with no boundaries, there's an enormous amount of post-production work that is confusing people when they engage with it. They don't realise just how much change takes place. And this is part of the deluge of information that they're getting. But also now, young women see so much digital information which reaches them either via their phone, via their screens, as well as all the usual advertising hard copy, billboards, landscape advertising copy.

allwalks.org (Photo courtesy of taliarose.wordpress.com)

I really began to feel that women were under siege and increasingly, young men. And from the conversations I was having, all the time about it, I recognised that someone from our industry needed to say, we don't all feel that this is the way forward. We don't want people who engage with fashion to feel undermined, we want them to feel empowered. And so that's what 'All Walks' is about; Erin O'Connor, Deborah Bourne and I were talking about this and we'd also be talking with Susan Ringwood, Chief Executive of 'b-eat', which is the UK's biggest eating disorder charity and we wanted to make our very first campaign a positive promotion of what fashion could be, which is really, quite simply, a broader range of bodies, of sizes, skintones...it really isn't rocket science, it was that simple. We finished working with Susan Ringwood after that first campaign, but Erin, Deborah and I realised that we'd opened the floodgates. The responses that we got were so strong that we knew we needed to improve what we were doing and to go on and develop it and make it more effective. 

So what we would say we do now, is engage with the practitioners of tomorrow, in Universities and Colleges to help them understand the power they have to change the fashion landscape.

5. What’s next on the ‘All Walks’ campaign agenda and how can ordinary people like myself get involved?

'Diversity NOW!' (Photo courtesy of benbarry.com)

Next for us on the agenda is seeing the results of our college competition called 'Diversity Now' which we'll be announcing at Graduate Fashion Week, where we've asked the next generation of creatives at art college to show us what their meaning of diversity is, so that we can promote that from our platform. We see, really that our initiative, which involves creating the diversity network in Edinburgh, lobbying in Parliament, creating far-reaching initiatives that speak to people - that is something that's ongoing. It's all voluntary, what we do so when we can get Sponsorship for the next campaign, we will then begin another big visual at London Fashion Week. 

How women can get involved right now, to decide to celebrate who they are and not to engage with anything that is undermining their confidence. To recognise that the more you see of an unachievable image, the more you normalise it in your head, the more it becomes an ideal which has the potential to destabilise you. For us, we feel that operating from the heart, creating fashion communications that does celebrate the power of clothes, the beauty of design, the excitement of fashion, but also offers a celebration of who we are is something that needs to be addressed by us, the Industry and by you, the Consumer - that's an important part of our work.

The doors of Somerset House opened for the Day One of London Fashion Week AW13 today. I’ll be venturing down to cover a few shows but this is my very first outing so I'm a bit daunted! If The Clothes Show Live is your second home, this is surely your third!

6. Do you remember your very first show? What were you most nervous about, did you make any mistakes?

My very first shows were as Fashion Editor of i-D magazine so that was many, many years ago - it was over 25 years ago! Memory, memory, memory - a trip down memory lane...! I was really excited at the energy that I had felt. When you're standing in - we call them 'The Tents', whether they're in a tent or not - but when you're standing in there and the music belts out and the bright lights...There's a rhythm to a catwalk show that grabs you by the heartbeat. There's a lot of adrenalin and a lot of excitement. I can still remember that and I can remember being so excited by seeing people who I thought - this person's going to go all the way...

Seeing Alexander McQueen's first show a few years later and demanding that we covered him on The Clothes Show. Demanding! Stamping my feet, even though my series producer didn't want to, because he wasn't a 'fashion person' and he didn't recognise the energy. 

Photo courtesy of fashionfoiegras.com

7. What advice would you have given your less experienced self?

All Walk 'Every Body Counts' campaign page
(Photo courtesy of allwalks.org)

I think it's easy to feel, when you're brand new to anything, that you are somehow insignificant because you're not in the front row and because you don't have a big powerful publication; but I would say that every individual in the building is as significant as the most accomplished, most recognisable figures - simply because your opinion counts.

Every Body Counts - that's the name of one of our campaigns, but it's true. Everybody's entitled to an opinion and you have to start somewhere. So, one day you might be at the beginning of your career, but fast forward 20 years and you will be in charge of a team, you will be broadcasting your ideas to a much bigger community and if you are politicised and you are knowledgeable about all of the issues and you're still able to connect from your heart to the pure creativity, pure excitement and the pure privilege of working in an industry like this, then it will serve you well and you will serve it well. 

From Top Model, to Project Runway - there’s a wealth of advice and guidance out there for budding models, designers and artists, but nothing for us Writers looking to follow in your footsteps.

8. Would you be kind enough to give us some top tips on how to make sure we get the best out of the shows, the key ideals we should keep in mind and also the common mistakes we should avoid at all costs?

Well first of all, I would say the trends and the shows are a portion of Fashion; so for any Writer, I would say it's important to be open to all the components that make up the Fashion Industry. Everybody prioritises Fashion Weeks and high-end designer creativity as the only thing that's happening, but it isn't. It is a huge industry and that's definitely the embodiment of glamour. But for me, as a Commentator - and maybe Writers also have the power to think about themselves as Commentators and as Reformers - if you have an opinion, you need to be engaged with the industry, you can't just observe it. 

Suzy Menkes (photo courtesy of ffw.com.br)

So my best tip for anybody who's writing, is that your opinion counts. If you feel something and you feel it strongly and you want to document it, then that's the best place to operate from. Quite often, viewing the trends and recording the trends, doesn't always engage people from the heart; it becomes quite a mechanical, formulaic way of viewing fashion. Some of the 'fashion speak' that I read, where I think to myself, "are you listening to yourself?!" It certainly concerns me that there's not enough thinking going on in assessment of fashion industry behaviour. So good Writers - if you're just starting out, aligning yourself with people whose opinions you value and whose writing you believe in...in our industry, Suzy Menkes has always provided a very methodical, pragmatic and knowledgeable account of the industry as a bigger, wider force than just catwalk trends. She is a prolific writer.

I particularly like it when outsiders come into our industry and write about it. And also I particularly like it when I feel people have opinions about image that don't rely on them wanting the fashion industry to approve of them. So I read people like Susie Orbach, whose book 'Bodies' I think is highly influential. That's the key thing. As somebody operating within the fashion industry you've got to work out your position. How much will you be engaging with the industry in a formulaic way, because it wants you to operate within a formula to earn money and how much will you be developing your own opinions, your own authenticity and honouring your own integrity? Because in every industry, these are the challenges. 

You've been instrumental in delivering education, changing legislation and bringing awareness to the issues surrounding diversity and health in fashion;

9. Where would you like to see ‘fashion-thinking’ progress most in the next 10 years?

I would like to see the industry policing itself with an understanding of its power. And with the celebration of that power comes recognition of responsibility and of desire to operate in an authentic way, with integrity. The challenges that I see now, may not be the challenges in years to come, it may be a completely different thing that we need to be looking at; but what I do understand, is that the psychological impact of depending on one unachievable body ideal, needs to be better explored by our industry and better understood by our industry, in order that it can operate with a more loving and a more empowering approach for its consumers.

10. Is there any chance we could get you to do another TV stint, in the style of the shows mentioned earlier, aimed at aspiring writers and presenters?

(Photo courtesy of Kingston University Website)

That always, in the past, has depended on us finding a broadcaster! But I know now, that with digital platforms and YouTube, it's an exciting space where we can all be our own broadcasters so, I'll just have to add that to my list of things 'To-Do'...

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I cannot thank Ms. Franklin enough for the absolute honour of granting an interview. Those 20 minutes were a true 'bucket list' moment and her personal praise and recognition of my work so far will stay with me to the end of my days!

Connect with Ms. Franklin, How To Look Good and All Walks Beyond The Catwalk via their respective Social Media Catalogues:

Caryn Franklin (MBE) on Twitter

All Walks Beyond The Catwalk on Twitter / Facebook / Website

How To Look Good on Twitter / Facebook / Website / YouTube

How was your Day One, LFW Pilgrims? Thoughts, feedback and summations are welcomed in the suggestion box below. For now, I'm heeding the gold dust advice of an absolute LEGEND and getting my prep work in for my first event this Sunday!

Don't miss Parts Two and Three in this London Fashion Week series over the coming weeks - Reviews of the 'Felicities Presents...Emerging Designers' Showcase and the Lulu Liu Catwalk Show! Do you have any pointers? I want to hear from you!

See you next time!

ES ;)

Dedicated to my earliest and everlasting inspiriation - Thank you Mum for everything xxx